8 NOVEMBER, INTERVIEW, ABC NEWCASTLE BREAKFAST
Presenter
Is banning under 16 seconds from social media the way to go to protect them from some of the nasty content and consequences of being online? You might have been thinking about it. If you've got young people in your life and the federal government has confirmed it will move towards that. Banning children under 16 from social media.
The Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, is meeting with state and territory leaders today discussing the change, and it's something that a parliamentary committee has been looking into, chaired by federal member for Newcastle, Sharon Claydon. And she joins you now. Good morning, Sharon Claydon Good morning.
Presenter
Your committee hasn't tabled its final report yet. So why has the Prime Minister taking this plan to national cabinet already?
Sharon Claydon
Well, I think the Prime Minister is, um, very convinced that this is a huge national issue and is going to require some national leadership. There has been a lot of conversation in this Parliament already. It's not like the government has just been sitting around waiting for this particular committee inquiry report. There's been many others preceding it, and there's been some really extreme examples of social harms that we are having to deal with. And my committee has been part of hearing a lot of that evidence. So there is absolutely no doubt that there are great benefits of social media, but there are also some really serious social harms that we are beginning to see, um, on a seriously escalating scale. Uh, and so the committee will bring down a report that we have been dealing with a wide range of issues, not just the matters of age verification and assurances, but also the news media bargaining code. We've got a lot of interactions with big tech companies and Australian society, and we've been looking at that broader picture. But the Prime Minister, you're right, is taking to national cabinet today, uh, a proposal that social media should be set at 16 as the minimum age. So the legislation is to be introduced by the end of the year. There is, um, you know, bipartisan support for this. I understand. So I mean, look, there'll be different parties will try and make, um, move amendments and all sorts of things. But I think there is a general consensus that there are serious harms being undertaken. Big tech needs to be much more accountable for their actions, and social media requires some social responsibility for their social licence.
Presenter
Why not leave it in the hands of parents to decide and manage?
Sharon Claydon
Well, I heard a lot of evidence from parents and they were particularly those that have experienced really just some of the most harrowing stories for their children, some people having lost their children, um, through a spiralling engagement online. Uh, some who have, you know, we've seen a massive escalation of eating disorders, body shaming, bullying, uh, leading to big mental health challenges. Now, it's true that mental health organisations are also using social media to reach out to children. It's a very, very complex picture. But there is, um, I can only say to you that parents are literally begging us to, uh, to do to give them a break. That's how they described it to me. They said they, need to they need a circuit breaker. Uh, they're these are very we know that big tech algorithms are they're so opaque. We know that we've got, um, mechanisms there that are very, very addictive. So there is continuous scrolling on devices, for example, where kids are still in bed at midnight, scrolling away. Now, parents can do can make interventions. Absolutely nobody wants the government to enter into all aspects of their life. But parents made abundantly clear that they are desperate for a circuit breaker. They have massive arguments at home, and they want to be able to say this is against the law.
Presenter
But Sharon Claydon as people quickly point out, whenever we talk about this, these are tech savvy kids, teenagers that could very well get around the ban by just saying they're older. Are there good measures that are going to be in place to make sure that they are legitimately 16 if using social media?
Sharon Claydon
Yeah. Great question. Um, and all I can say is that these big tech companies know our children better than anybody. They have collected so much data. Uh, in fact, that's one of the issues my committee is looking at. But it is a the technology is forever evolving. Uh, certainly young people have told me, you know, we know how to, um, game this system, right. Uh, so I think it's also important to make really clear to listeners, the government is not naive in thinking that you put this one policy in place and you set and forget, because that is not going to work. The other really huge part of this is getting, um, people into digital comp, like increasing our competency in digital in the digital world. So that's not just for young people, but I'll tell you, parents, carers, they're all screaming out. They want to know how to better protect their kids online.
Presenter
Uh, we're close to running out of time, I'm afraid, Sharon Claydon but I do just want to touch on, uh, something we've heard previously that banning children just removes them from a harmful environment. Maybe what we should be doing is reducing the harm in the first place. Um, stopping that from happening. Is that part of what will be in your report? Absolutely.
Sharon Claydon
Spot on. Big tech needs to be accountable. Um, they need to be able to have safety by design principles. They need to allow people to better curate their own experiences, not be force fed. I mean, what you've got to understand is that for big tech, we are products. We are part of their advertising. And that is there is harmful advertising being directed at children. There are all kinds of behaviours being modified by the content being seen. So, uh, big tech absolutely has to be more responsible. My report will have a lot of advice as to how they could lift their game and ensure the online safety of children, but all Australians well, we look forward to hearing more about the report and what comes from this meeting with state and territory leaders, with the Prime Minister today.
